A Forum for Vigorous Debate, Cornerstone of Democracy

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A FORUM FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND VIGOROUS DEBATE, CORNERSTONES OF DEMOCRACY
[For the journal (guidelines, focus, etc.), go to www.theamericandissident.org ].
Encouraged censorship and self-censorship seem to have become popular in America today. Those who censor others, not just self, tend to favor the term "moderate," as opposed to "censor" and "moderation" to "censorship." But that doesn't change what they do. They still act as Little Caesars or Big Brother protectors of the thin-skinned. Democracy, however, demands a tough populace, not so easily offended. On this blog, and to buck the trend of censorship, banning, and ostracizing, comments are NEVER "moderated." Rarely (almost NEVER) do the targets of these blog entries respond in an effort to defend themselves with cogent counter-argumentation. This blog is testimony to how little academics, poets, critics, newspaper editors, cartoonists, political hacks, cultural council apparatchiks, librarians et al appreciate VIGOROUS DEBATE, cornerstone of democracy. Clearly, far too many of them could likely prosper just fine in places like communist China and Cuba or Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Russia.

More P. Maudit cartoons (and essays) at Global Free Press: http://www.globalfreepress.org

Friday, December 11, 2009

Charles Coe

 
As part of an ongoing experiment to test the waters of democracy, especially in the academic and literary arenas, notice of this blog entry was sent to each of the persons depicted in the above watercolor (see below). Will any of them dare comment? Likely not. Their shame is that they do not cherish, but rather scorn, vigorous debate, democracy’s cornerstone. Their shame, at least those in the teaching profession (Pinsky, Marchant, Houlihan, Wright, and Espada), is that they do not seek to expose their students to all points of view and all possibilities for inspiration with regards writing, including and especially dissidence and purposeful conflict with power. Their shame is their contentment that dissidents like me and others are kept out of their festivals, kept from public funding, and kept from the eye of youth. Their shame is that my freedom of expression and that of other American dissidents is being crushed at every corner. Some of them have even become millionaire professor poets. Indeed, how can one possibly expect raw, visceral truth from such persons?

The idea for the above watercolor brewed over several weeks time and was likely sparked by the probable clique connection existing between Joan Houlihan, Director of the Concord Poetry Center, Karen Wulf, Director of Pen New England, Joan Bertin, Director of the National Coalition against Censorship, and Fred Marchant, Director of the Suffolk University Poetry Center. Both Wulf and Houlihan operate from Lesley University (Cambridge, MA). Both Wulf and Bertin refuse to address the freedom of expression and censorship issues I’d brought to their attention. Why?

Again, the only concrete explanation I could come up with was the clique. Houlihan often reads paired with Marchant, who is depicted in a photo hugging Charles Coe of the Massachusetts Cultural Council and Massachusetts Poetry Festival. Coe refuses to address my request to be invited to the Poetry Festival. To that concoction, I added Doug Holder of Ibbetson Press, who interviewed Coe and gave Robert Pinsky, also depicted in the watercolor, a medal or award.

Pinsky seems to be the established-order poet poster boy, invited left and right and everywhere else to read his flaccid poem about a shirt. How mind-boggling can it get? I first contacted him in 1996 or 7, when he was invited to give the commencement speech at Fitchburg State College. I contacted him because of the inherent corruption festering at that institution. He of course was indifferent and did not respond. All he wanted was his 5-10K honorarium. He really does disgust me as a poet.

Doug Holder, on the other hand, has certainly been more open than most poets of the established order. Poesy mag, which he co-edits or co-edited, interviewed me. Doug certainly could have prevented that interview. Also, he did place a link to this blog on his site and even manifested rare established-order poet curiosity by buying an issue of The American Dissident at Grolier's in Harvard Square. So, hats off to Doug... sincerely. Just the same, it is too bad he doesn't push others of the clique like Coe and Houlihan and Marchant to open their doors to dissent. So, come on Doug, give those poet cohorts a little boot in the rump... not for me, but for democracy!

To fill out the picture, I added Martin Espada of the University of Massachusetts for diversity’s sake and for his indifference to dissident poets. Also, I added Franz Wright of Brandeis University, who was invited by Houlihan to read and for his indifference.

Of course, many others could have been added to the picture. Duke University professor Gary Hull, Director of the Program on Values and Ethics in the Marketplace, for example, could have been added. He refused to respond to my emails requesting he place my signature, as editor of The American Dissident, on a petition he created to decry Yale University’s decision to censor cartoons. Has it perhaps gotten that bad that petitions are only open to certain categories of citizens?

In America, perhaps we are indeed now in the Age of Aberrancy, where censorship has become rampant and censors extolled as moderators of pre-approved bourgeois aesthetics. George Orwell would have gone nuts with so much material to write about!

In essence, the rancid odor of cliquishness characterizes the established-order academic/literary scene. Offend the clique and risk ostracizing. It’s quite that simple. What really concerns the clique is not literature per se and certainly not democracy, but rather the marketing of clique members and their books. It is sad that public cultural councils endorse this kind of cliquishness and hermetic resistance to dissent.

As noted in the watercolor, its idea was also inspired by Brueghel’s painting, “The Cripples” (or “The Beggars”) and Léo Ferré’s 1956 preface to "Poète...vos papiers !" (see www.theamericandissident.org/Essays-Ferre.htm) In the quote, Ferré mentions that poets cut off their own wings, leaving just enough “moignon” (stump) so they may flutter about in the Literary Poultry Yard. He also mentions that we may expect little, if any, hope from poets of that sort.
.......................
From: George Slone
To: Charles.coe@art.state.ma.us; ibbetsonpress@msn.com; pen-ne@lesley.edu; Bertin@ncac.org; mespada@english.umass.edu; fjmarchant@aol.com; rpinsky@bu.edu; joan@concordpoetry.org; cpc@concordpoetry.org; fwright@brandeis.edu
Cc: gahull@soc.duke.edu; mina.wright@art.state.ma.us; dan.blask@art.state.ma.us; voltairepress@live.com
Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 11:57:37 AM
Subject: The Age of Aberrancy, the Poetes moignons & Vigorous Debate, Cornerstone of Democracy

Dear Poets et al:
You are the subject of a new watercolor and blog entry, which is why you're being contacted. Go ahead, curiosity didn't kill the cat. Apparently, it only killed the poet, which certainly must explain his and her incredible incuriosity! http://wwwtheamericandissidentorg.blogspot.com/2009/12/age-of-aberrancy-and-poets-of-moignon.html

Sincerely,
G. Tod Slone, PhD and Founding Editor (since 1998)
The American Dissident, a Journal of Literature, Democracy & Dissidence
A 501 c3 Nonprofit Providing a Forum for Vigorous Debate, Cornerstone of Democracy
todslone@yahoo.com
www.theamericandissident.org
1837 Main St.
Concord, MA 01742

54 comments:

Mim said...

I'm sure sure I understand your accusations. How do you prove them? Why not just satirize? You call these poets, "basse cour." Farm yard animals. Do you mean they are tame, domesticated?

Mim said...

I meant to write: "I'm not sure I understand your accusations."

Susan Tepper said...

I'm not in the cartoon, in fact I'm sure you've never heard of me, and if you did meet me, you probably wouldn't like me. But here's my question: what do YOU look like? Why do you hide behind a nature photo? Just for fun, for the New Year, why not do a piece on some poets you respect, there must be at least one or two out there that you can tolerate. It would be fun! A nice change of pace. I mean this sincerely.

G. Tod Slone said...

Mim,
First, I wish you'd ponder anonymity. How to believe what an anonymous entity says or writes? Be proud of who you are, stand upright, as Emerson advised, and present yourself! So many academics today prefer anonymity when responding online to articles in the Chronicle of Higher Ed and Inside Higher Ed. What poor role models they make! Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to comment, even if anonymously.

You stipulate that what I write and draw are mere “accusations.” But they are not accusations at all. Instead, they are assumptions and facts. Because you or somebody doesn’t like something does not necessarily make it an accusation. My ostracizing in these parts and elsewhere is not an accusation at all, but rather a fact.

It would be helpful if you would be precise and present one or two precise “accusations” so that I might consider them and attempt to prove that they are not accusations.

Are you perhaps one of the persons depicted in the sketch?

Yes, of course, by “basse-cour,” Leo Ferre implied tame and herd-like. Leo Ferre, by the way, wrote that statement in his 1956 Preface and with regards France. It was very interesting for me to come upon his text because it was also my very observation here and many years later in America and also in French-speaking Quebec, where I was once upon a time the only poet, out of 150 invited and well remunerated poets, who stood up and dared criticize the hand that fed the money.
G. Tod

G. Tod Slone said...

Susan,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. You are right. I’ve never heard of you, not that that means anything. Thank you for using your real name. Already I like you because unlike so many, you choose not silence is golden, but rather free and open expression. Sure, I might not agree with you. But we are at least communicating. Regarding those depicted in the cartoon, the communication is only one way… from me to them.

Good point on my “hiding behind a nature photo.” I actually love that “swamp monster” tree trunk and see it everyday during my run down Harrington Avenue. What I do not like is the smiling faces of poets staring up into the heavens or straight at the viewer. I used that photo because I thought it was somewhat artistic and not just my puss staring into the heavens trying to look profound or hungry for fame. Now and then, I too have made that error.

If you note, most poet websites are nothing but sell, sell, sell, and put forth no ideas or viewpoints at all. Why must the poet be an ostrich with head in the sand playing with words? Why can’t the poet be something else, including a contrarian? I am against those poet websites. The American Dissident website is composed of mostly viewpoints and ideas… even if you don’t agree with them. That’s what makes it different from Pinsky’s or Wright’s or Espada’s, for example.

As a cartoonist, I am evidently a satirist. My desire and purpose are thus to criticize society, its institutions and icons. I have done critical pieces depicting Thoreau, Orwell, Emerson, Jeffers, Villon, Solzhenitsyn and others. I’ve also done some in a more positive light regarding poet friends. So, it’s not all negative, though mostly.

Now, what you propose is more happy face, positive thinking stuff, the kind of stuff that has been destroying democracy. For you, I would suggest reading Barbara Ehrenreich’s “Bright-Sided Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America.”

Finally, as indicated in my little essay, likely not one member critiqued in that cartoon would respond… again proving my point that academics and poets in general abhor vigorous debate, cornerstone of democracy.

Niether you nor Nim have attempted to prove that what is depicted in that cartoon is false.
G. Tod

G. Tod Slone said...

Mim,
My apologies. You are not going incognito. Bravo to you... sincerely! My statement on incognito, though not pertinent to you, remains pertinent to the many academics whose lives are ruled by fear and herdthink.
T.

G. Tod Slone said...

It is sad to me that you remain indifferent, especially to this: "Both Wulf and Bertin refuse to address the freedom of expression and censorship issues I’d brought to their attention." Why does Wulf, director of PEN New England, not even respond to my grievances regarding obstructions to my freedom of expression in New England? Isn't that what PEN New England is supposed to do? Why does she remain indifferent that Watertown Free Public Library, for example, issued me a no-trespass order for simply trying to get it to subscribe? SILENCE!!! Has PEN become a mere organ of the Democrat Party today? Probably so.

Charlotte Walker said...

re Pinsky's "flaccid poem about a shirt. How mind-boggling can it get?"

I haven't read Pinsky's shirt poem but I'd guess it is the kind of "poetry" that I hate.

btw...... I was disappointed in Barbara's latest book,"Bright-Sided".

G. Tod Slone said...

I liked the general idea presented by Barbara, but found it a bit tedious. However, I did get a handful of good quotes from the book, including "What has changed, in the last few years, is that the advice to at least act in a positive way has taken on a harsher edge. The penalty for nonconformity is going up, from the possibility of job loss and failure to social shunning and complete isolation." That quote certainly applies to the literary scene. Thanks for commenting Charlotte.

mather said...

You're getting some comments so I guess that's good, but...what lame comments. Mim isn't quite sure she understands what it means to call people barnyard animals. "Do you mean tame, domesticated?" she asks. No, Mim, he means "highly individualistic, wild."

And then Susan Tepper comes on and really hands it to you. I guess she didn't notice the many drawings of yourself that you've done over the blogs and the quite clear photo of you just a few blogs below. As if you're trying to protect your image by putting yourself next to a tree! Boy, she got you there!

Well, you answered them both well. Merry Christmas, old timer!

I really like the drawing, and can tell you put some work into it. Reminds me of that one you did a long time ago with all the beats in it. I'd still like to have that one for my wall.

mather said...

One more thing about Tepper's comment about the need for you to do something on poets you admire. It's the same old thing, as if all you can do is hate and be negative. I guess she didn't notice all the quotes you use from writers/poets who you ADMIRE, such as Thoreau, Emerson, Orwell and the rest.

G. Tod Slone said...

M,
What to say? Well, at least Mim had the guts to show her picture and give her whole name. Not one of those depicted in the watercolor, which did take quite a lot of time, responded. Surprise? Well, we both know of course not.
Yeah, that one did take a long time. Just thinking it up took a while, then hunting for the faces on the Internet, etc.
Yeah, I still remember the beats one too seated at their members only Society of American Poets. What a fraud... the beats! Oh, they were expert PR persons! Ferlinghetti with his millions. Snyder as high and mighty chancellor of the Academy, Ginsberg pushing himself like a door to door salesman. And their PR worked quite well with youth. Kerouac, for me, was the best and most truthful. If he had lived, he probably would have adorned the tie and jacket with Snyder. Who knows.
Right on the bulls eye, M: "It's the same old thing, as if all you can do is hate and be negative." The same old thing... as if they all took the same old course on being nice. Thanks for responding.

Joe said...

RE Pinsky, as he seems to be the man of the hour. Like a moth. I read a few lines of his writing, and found him a typically untalented modern poet. Reading only a few lines would seem hardly enough to form an opinion, however had I read an equal number by say Housman or Keats, I would have been immediately fired to buy their books. I already have them. Pinsky is clearly very educated. It didn't help. Keats had only occupational training in surgery, Housman was a student and teacher of languages. Both actually wrote poetry. Joe Hart

G. Tod Slone said...

Joe,
Well, thanks much for taking the time to comment. In reality, however, I'm not even criticizing Pinsky's poetry. I'm criticizing him as a see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, speak-no-evil, well-remunerated cog of the academic-lit machine.

Joe said...

T. - Then why don't you take on Poetry mag (and T.S. Eliot) for championing Ezra Pound who was a declared fascist (as well as a poet with one poem to his name - "Ballade of the Goodly Frere" - in care you're wondering). He was convicted of treason and died in an insane asylum. Poetry (the highly and over touted mag) loved the bejesus out of him. Joe Hart

Charlotte said...

I think Mim and Susan were pretty brave to make a comment here. I was glad to see them take part.

And Joe.... I hope you will stop back again. After reading your words, I looked at your profile and darn..... you don't have one. I was curious to know something about you.

I'm just learning about how to use the blogger system. I just created mine yesterday. I had a previous empty account that I deleted earlier this week.

It would be good to see the AD blog comments become more than a two man show even though I do like to read their words.

Those who get criticized in the AD blog are never going to worry about a blog with only a few taking part. I'd like to see them quiver at the thought of the AD blog and its comments.

mather said...

That sounds good to me too, Charlotte. Nice to see some people commenting here other than the same old same old. I hope you're doing well.

G. Tod Slone said...

Joe,
Well, I have hammered Poetry mag numerous times! Here's a great Pound poem... right up my ally: www.theamericandissident.org/PoemPound.htm... and not fascist!
Good points, Charlotte, but I'm a terrible marketer. Just the same, I think both Mim and Susan are cowardly persons. They hit, then they ran. I just received a long letter from a critic and at the end of it, she wrote: this is my last letter to you and if you write back I won't read it.
Very typical...

Joe said...

T. - Will read the Pound poem. Don't want to. Don't like the guy. All those cantos - interminable. Pound hated America you know - as he was leaving it once, he said goodbye to the "lunatic asylum" - prophetic, yes? - so I expect to read something right up your alley. Joe

BTW Not crazy about the place myself, but not a Christian, not a fascist either.

Joe said...

Okay. I read it. So what? Joe

Joe said...

"Bush"

Bush the hawk -
Bush the liar -
Bush the prig and puritan
Formerly a profligate -
Bush the criminal
And sadist -
Bush the gross
Incompetent -
Bush was born again -
Once was quite enough -

T - Sorry for my callous reaction to your Pound poem - told you I don't like Pound - he belonged in a prison, not an asylum - a prison for lousy poets - there he could teach other inmates (like Pinsky and Whitman, born incidentally when Keats was) how to write bad poetry, like he taught Eliot. BTW Forget not your reaction to "La Belle Dame" - and I copied that whole thing out for you, didn't just jot down a link - and didn't you say you didn't even read it all? Joe Hart

rosamariastriegel said...

hello~nice to meet u..............................

G. Tod Slone said...

Joe,
Ditto on that not crazy about it and not being christ-fascistic. I've got a thick spine. Ole Mather and I have been punching it out periodically. We're both still standing. So, no problem, Joe. I LOL'd at your Bush born once was more than enough. I only faintly recall La Belle.
T.

Joe said...

T. - Read your comment a while ago, planned to answer but can't think of what to say. Simple is better. Am glad I didn't didn't offend you with my off-hand snotty reaction to your poet. BTW went to the Journal's (Audience) site and behold they've posted the listed of people in their next issue - I'm in it. This is too much. That's the 4th issue in a roll. Submitted 6 poems, don't know how many they took or what - naturally I hope all. Did I tell you (since I've become chatty and non-dissident) that Mike (publisher, founder, CEO of the Journal's pub co) asked me to write a piece on my favorite author - did - Proust (in translation) - a bit prolix (par for the course) and he posted it! Truly a good (secular) Friday - Joe

mather said...

What journal are you talking about, Joe?

G. Tod Slone said...

Joe,
Enough of the base boasting bullshit! Is that what poets have become reduced to today? A poem published and that makes them feel complete? Wow. What a lowly breed of creature the poet has become. Is he any better than the dog that feels contented when the master throws a bone his way? Man o man. No wonder poetry doesn't matter! No wonder nobody listens to poets with the exception of the proverbial old ladies and poet myrmidons.

mather said...

Hey, Slone, don't burst his bubble! That's the fourth one in a "roll" he's been in!

mather said...

capemaycountyherald.com/article/39691-wildwood-poet-piles

Joe said...

T - Kinda boasting I guess by definition, really just happy. I love it.

Mather - Was that sarcasm or defense? Prefer T's explosion to insidious sardonicness (?).

Forgot who asked, but the Journal is what I call a quarterly mag named Audience (worldaudience.org).


Is anybody in his right mind averse to love, acceptance and appreciation? I was NEVER in anybody's definition of a "right mind" and I like them. Joe

BTW Success is new to me - am sure the novelty will wear off in a while - also am sure Christ will come again a week after the crucifixion.

Joe said...

T - Please refund my $18, cancel my subscription and do not publish the 2 poems you accepted. I don't like them anymore, I won't sink that low, and I don't want your mag. I didn't like being told that my poems are "lacking" (euphemism for shitty) because of my "intense desire for fame" when I went to some trouble to tell you what my goal actually is - not fame. And anyway you're wrong, Keats wanted nothing so much in his life as to be famous, and I for one (bourgeois moi)think a lot of what he wrote is very beautiful. So genius and a desire for fame are not mutually exclusive as you think. I won't be back to this site, so you can be as venomous as you like. But if you send me any more emails, I will delete them unread. Yes. You can add me to your always growing list. That should make you very happy. Except I'm not famous. Joe Hart

G. Tod Slone said...

Tried your link, M, but it doesn't work. J, there's got to be a higher state of mind and pride than that offered by herd acceptance. RE "lacking" was not written as pertaining to the poem that WILL be published (the mag's at the printer's), but to poetry in general written without any underlying principle other than toying with words, which of course is no principle at all. Re-read my entry, Joe. [BTW, J and I have been corresponding since his statement about deleting my emails, so apparently he changed his mind... which is fine.]

Joe said...

T - With my usual will of iron, I read (and answered) your email and am back at your site. To make it known, you define "lacking" as lacking in truths, moral fiber, etc. Well, that may not be right, but anyway you don't define it as shitty poetry as poetry. Which as I said in my response to your email, is all that matters to me (though I have written plenty of angry poems too, poems with a "cause" - but these are not what interest me). Keats said that the "poetry" of a work was all he was qualified to judge. Maybe him. I don't judge - lack Keats' expertise - just have strong likes and dislikes - opinionated is a good word here!

Anyway, to make a short story long, think we made up and I'll keep my subscription and you'll print the poems - both being done without my having a creepy feeling I'm eating shit. Joe

PS, T - As an undergraduate psych major, your should know better than to tell people what their feelings "really are" and how they got that way.

mather said...

Joe, I was being sarcastic.

Did you write that article about Kathleen Graber in the Cape May County Herald?

Joe said...

Mather - Thought so. Sounded like it to me. Wrote no article for the Herald. That's the paper your link led me to, got the paper but not an article. Was that more sarcasm? Was expecting to find one of your poems. BTW since you have reappeared, that was a typo in my earlier post - not 4 issues in a "roll" but in a "row" - was thinking "am on a roll" and two thoughts found a common outlet (read your Berne - probably Freud too). Joe

mather said...

Yeah, some guy named Joe Hart wrote an article there...thought it was you until I read some of your poems under "Joseph" and concluded it was a different Joe Hart...

I knew you meant "in a row"...I figured that out without reading Freud OR Berne...

Joe said...

Mather - Where did you read my poems? Joe

mather said...

worldaudience.org

Joe said...

Mather - Had to be. Hope you're still there. Are you familiar with (Eric) Berne? Joe

mather said...

No I am not familiar with Eric Berne.

mather said...

What happened? I'm still waiting for my psychology lecture. Slone, did you warn him off?

By the way, I sent my subscription money. Merry Christmas!

Joe said...

No psychology lecture You wouldn't understand it. It's in English. You're not particularly funny, you know. Read some of your poems. You're not particularly bright, either. Being a cabby pay lots? Good picture of you in front of the bar. Prefer the bar. Of the poems of yours I read, the only one that got to me (and did think it was kind of poignant and sad) was the one that ended with something like - a 5 year old asking a hooker about love. Am not interested in your opinions of my poems. Can't see that your judgment amounts to much, and know your opinions would be all negative. Don't consider your poems bad, just don't go for modern verse. Congratulations on the publication of your book. My first is due out in a few weeks as of 12/1. Only unlike you, I didn't take out a full page profile to herald it. Just mentioned it now. Seems from what you said in your profile, I'm happier about mine than you are about yours. Have the impression the only times you're happy are when you're making lame innocuous sarcastic put-downs of people, and possibly when you're inside the bar. There's your psychology lecture. Back fence style. Got a name for this forum - "Hatred".

Joe said...

No psychology lecture You wouldn't understand it. It's in English. You're not particularly funny, you know. Read some of your poems. You're not particularly bright, either. Being a cabby pay lots? Good picture of you in front of the bar. Prefer the bar. Of the poems of yours I read, the only one that got to me (and did think it was kind of poignant and sad) was the one that ended with something like - a 5 year old asking a hooker about love. Am not interested in your opinions of my poems. Can't see that your judgment amounts to much, and know your opinions would be all negative. Don't consider your poems bad, just don't go for modern verse. Congratulations on the publication of your book. My first is due out in a few weeks as of 12/1. Only unlike you, I didn't take out a full page profile to herald it. Just mentioned it now. Seems from what you said in your profile, I'm happier about mine than you are about yours. Have the impression the only times you're happy are when you're making lame innocuous sarcastic put-downs of people, and possibly when you're inside the bar. There's your psychology lecture. Back fence style. Got a name for this forum - "Hatred".

Joe said...

Due to the miracle of modern technology, you can read it twice.

Joe said...

BTW Does either of you know the difference between being dissident and being a philistine?

G. Tod Slone said...

M,
Thanks for the laugh! No, I don't warn them off. Fuck it. If they're havin' fun. Good. Too much le whiskey! Christ, how can one not imbibe?
J,
Actually, ole Mather is a smart guy. And who the hell cares what he drives or doesn't drive? Come on, man!
I just thought I'd let both of you guys discourse. Enough of your book, Joe! Basta! We're happy for you. But let's not overdo it. Books published by poets in these parts are a dime a million. Lighten up, Joe! Take a breather!

mather said...

Joe, take fresh-from-college pretentiousness and go over to HTML GIANT. They love that shit over there.

mather said...

So, Joe, in one small comment section on one small blog you have told me I am not funny, I am not smart, I am a loser financially, I am barely a poet, I am a self-aggrandizing shmuck because I put a notice of my book on my own blog, my opinion doesn't count for much, I am not happy (therefore inferior), I am lame, innocuous and a drunk. But, I'M the negative, hateful one, right?

Merry Christmas to you too, Joe!

Joe said...

Yup. You've been on my ass (reason unknown) from the first post I made several days ago, and you wouldn't let up no matter what I said to conciliate you. I'm not just out of college. I've never been called pretentious before. I did not dislike your poems, in fact I mentioned one that particularly affected me. You did get them published after all, but someone who likes modern, experimental, free verse (whatever they call it) would no doubt like them more than I do.

Joe said...

Pretentious?

There once was a fellow named Jack
Who gave it a wonderful whack
Which wasn't as odd
As the length of his rod
Which allowed him to whack from the back.



There once was a girl from Nantucket
Who drilled a big hole in a bucket.
Then she cried, "What a plum
To have oh so much cum!"
And invited the boys in to fuck it.

mather said...

You think I've been on your ass, Joe? Why, because I didn't want to listen to how stupid I am because I haven't read Freud and Berne?

Joe, name-dropping is pretentious. Assuming you are well read and everyone else is a dummy is pretentious. Telling us about your petty publishing accomplishments when Slone specifically hates that sort of thing is pretentious. Publishing a book when you have only published 6 poems in journals is pretentious. Just because you've never been called pretentious before, it's still true.

Not sure what the limerick is supposed to prove, but ok.

G. Tod Slone said...

Joe,
This is not a porno site, so please save the porno for elsewhere. Thank you. In fact, we're completely off focus here. Let's all try to stay on focus.
T.

Joe said...

Don't know why your remarks (body-slam) hurt my feelings, but they did. For instance I have had more than 6 petty publications in journals - more like 400 petty ones. Don't see what difference that makes anyway. Talking about things I like (in this case, books) makes me happy - not pretentious, though the flip side of what you call pretentious is ignorant. A nicer way to put that is just that you have different interests. Don't feel like being nice right now. You didn't just get on my case when I said you weren't too bright, you started with my very first post. You might put some of this imagination into your poems. But if it makes you happy, I'm pretentious. It is clearly pointless to answer anymore of your posts, none of them will be sensible, fair or failing that, accurate (a euphemism for honest).

Sorry about the porn. Had never thought of it as porn before.

Oh, to exacerbate things even further, got a letter yesterday. My book's been printed. My measly, petty, accomplishment. Subsidy no, de trop yes.

Ciao. Okay. The last word was pretentious. No it wasn't, it was porno. Take it from there.

mather said...

Sorry Joe. It's Christmas, so let's start over, ok?

No hard feelings on my end.

Joe said...

I'd be glad to. Didn't want to fight in the first place.
Did think that poem of yours I mentioned was sad, poignant, like I said. Well-written, though am not big on modern verse, but know that others are. Joe